Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research - part 14/17
2025-11-25_17-29 • 1h 36m 3s
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
00:00.000
The
AI
tools
like
like
defakes,
voice
clones,
and
agents
have
dramatically
increased
the
sophistication
of
fraud
and
abuse.
So,
it's
more
important
than
ever
to
actually
understand
the
identity
and
intent
of
whoever
or
whatever
is
using
your
platform.
That's
exactly
what
Sardine
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
00:18.760
helps
you
do.
Sardine
brings
together
thousands
of
device,
behavior,
and
identity
signals
to
help
you
assess
risk.
Everything
from
how
a
user
types
or
moves
their
mouse
or
holds
their
device
to
whether
their
hiding
their
true
location
behind
a
VPN
to
whether
they're
injecting
a
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
00:35.680
fake
camera
feed
during
KYC
selfie
checks.
Sardine
combines
these
signals
with
insights
from
their
network
of
almost
4
billion
devices.
Things
like
a
user's
history
of
fraud
or
their
associations
with
other
high risk
accounts.
So
you
can
spot
bad
actors
before
they
do
damage.
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
00:53.240
This
would
literally
be
impossible
if
you
only
use
data
from
your
own
application.
Sardine
doesn't
stop
a
detection.
They
offer
a
suite
of
agents
to
streamline
onboarding
checks
and
automate
investigations.
So,
as
fraudsters
use
AI
to
scale
their
attacks,
you
can
use
AI
to
scale
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
01:09.600
your
defenses.
Go
to
sardine.ai/
dwarkesh
to
learn
more
and
download
their
guide
on
AI
fraud
detection.
What
is
SSI
planning
on
doing
differently?
So
presumably
your
plan
is
to
be
one
of
the
frontier
companies
when
this
time
arrives.
And
then
what
is
presumably
you
started
SSI
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
01:32.060
because
you're
like
I
I
think
I
have
a
way
of
approaching
how
to
do
this
safely
in
a
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
01:35.980
way
that
the
other
companies
don't.
What
what
is
that
difference?
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
01:40.140
So
the
way
I
would
describe
it
as
There
are
some
ideas
that
I
think
are
promising
and
I
want
to
investigate
them
and
see
if
they
are
indeed
promising
or
not.
It's
really
that
simple.
It's
an
attempt.
I
think
that
if
the
ideas
turn
out
to
be
correct,
these
ideas
that
we
discussed
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
01:57.140
around
understanding
generalization.
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
02:01.060
Hm.
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
02:02.140
If
these
ideas
turn
out
to
be
correct,
then
I
think
we
will
have
something
worthy.
Will
it
turn
out
to
be
correct?
We
are
doing
research.
We
are
squarely
age
of
research
company.
We're
making
progress.
We've
actually
made
quite
good
progress
over
the
past
year,
but
we
need
to
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
02:19.180
keep
making
more
progress.
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
02:20.260
Yeah.
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
02:20.620
More
research.
And
that's
how
I
see
it.
I
see
it
as
an
attempt
to
be
an
attempt
to
be
a
voice
and
a
participant.
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
02:32.460
Um,
people
have
asked
uh
your
co-founder
and
previous
CEO
left
to
go
to
Meta
recently.
And
people
have
asked,
"Well,
if
If
there
was
a
lot
of
breakthroughs
being
made,
that
seems
like
I
think
that
should
have
been
unlikely.
I
wonder
how
you
respond.
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
02:49.260
Yeah,
so
I
in
for
for
this,
I
will
simply
remind
a
few
facts
that
may
have
been
forgotten.
And
I
think
this
these
facts
which
provide
the
context,
I
think
they
explain
the
situation.
So
the
context
was
that
we
were
fundraising
at
a
32
billion
valuation
and
then
Meta
um
came
in
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
03:11.180
and
offered
to
to
acquire
us.
And
I
said
no,
but
my
former
co-founder,
like
in
some
sense,
said
yes.
And
as
a
result,
he
also
was
able
to
enjoy
from
a
lot
of
near
term
liquidity.
And
he
was
the
only
person
from
SSI
to
join
Meta.
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
03:31.460
It
sounds
like
SSI's
plan
is
to
be
a
company
that
is
at
the
frontier
when
you
get
to
this
very
important
period
in
human
history
where
you
have
superhuman
intelligence
and
you
have
these
ideas
about
how
to
make
superhuman
intelligence
go
well.
But
other
companies
will
be
trying
Dwarkesh Patel (Host)
03:46.660
their
own
ideas.
What
distinguishes
SSI's
approach
to
making
super
intelligence
go
well?
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
03:54.380
The
main
thing
that
distinguishes
SSI
is
its
technical
approach.
So
we
have
a
different
technical
approach
that
I
think
is
worthy.
And
we
are
pursuing
it.
I
maintain
that
in
the
end
there
will
be
a
convergence
of
strategies.
So
I
think
there
will
be
a
convergence
of
of
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
04:13.500
strategies
where
at
some
point
as
AI
becomes
more
powerful,
it's
going
to
become
more
or
less
clearer
to
everyone
what
the
strategy
should
be.
And
it
should
be
something
like,
yeah,
you
need
to
find
some
way
to
talk
to
each
other
and
you
want
your
first
actual
like
real
super
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
04:34.140
intelligent
AI
to
be
aligned
and
somehow
be,
you
know,
care
for
sentient
life
careful
people,
democratic,
one
of
those,
some
combination
of
theirof.
And
I
think
this
is
the
condition
that
everyone
should
strive
for.
And
that's
what
SSI
is
striving
for.
And
I
think
that
this
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
05:01.500
time,
if
not
already,
all
the
other
companies
will
realize
that
they're
striving
towards
the
same
thing.
And
we'll
see,
I
think
that
the
world
will
truly
change
as
I
become
more
powerful.
And
I
think
a
lot
of
these
forecasts
will
like
I
think
things
will
be
really
different
and
Ilya Sutskever (Co-founder and Chief Scientist)
05:15.980
people
will
be
acting
really
differently.